Entertainers of the Golden Age Read Only Export

and I think we'll have lots of fun with this one.

It's devoted to THE ENTERTAINERS ....the comedians, the singers, the tap dancers --- all the great performers who moved us in the 30's, 40's and 50's -- in the waning days of vaudeville - on the stages of the great movie palaces when the curtain opened and the Big Bands were on - aided and abetted by comics, impressionists, tapsters, - and then on to the great night clubs every big town had them - and in the small towns, the smaller acts worked. And lets not forget the Borscht Belt in NY's Catskills - and similar venues around the country... and, of course, Vegas -- in the lounges and the big show rooms.

They had us rolling on the floor - or tapping our feet, wishing we could hoof it the way they did - even had an occasional movie star taking a turn in front of the microphone.

And just to get us started - here's the first subject:

How about listing your idea of the 5 greatest entertainers you ever saw ...... and why you think they were so great -- maybe even a little anecdote about them.

Here's my list:

The Story Teller -- DANNY THOMAS

The Comedy Team -- who else? MARTIN & LEWIS (The Ritz Bros. a close second)

The Singer/Performer -- AL JOLSON

The Dance Act -- THE STEP BROTHERS

The All-Around Greatest Entertainer I ever saw -- SAMMY DAVIS, jr.

Hey - the list could go on and on, but these are my special favorites - and as we get going, I'll go back to them and tell a little something of my memories of these great people.

Okay - let's hear it from everyone. This should be great fun!

Parman - Looks like an interesting new slant on The Golden Age of Entertainment! I'm sure there are many SNer's out there who will join in to make this discussion a success.

I'll have to think awhile about who my favorites are, but I will come up with my personal list. I agree with you on, Sammy Davis, Jr. I saw him perform in Las Vegas, and he was amazing!

Parman. I like your new quiz. No winners or losers. I'll take a stab at some or my favorites:

1. Story teller - George Carlin or Bob Newhart

2. Comedy team -- Laurel and Hardy

3. Singer/Performer -- also Al Jolson

4. Dance Act -- For me the best dance on stage was Carol Haney doing Bob Fosse's "Steam Heat" in Pajama Game.

5. Greatest all-around entertainer - Mary Martin

I love your list. Laurel and Hardy - although mainly movie people - still break me up.

There's a cute little anecdote about Ollie Hardy. When he was on "This is Your Life" - a voice came from offstage - telling him all about their friendship - and when the guy came onstage, Hardy didn't know him - didn't remember him at all. Tyhe look on Ralph Edwards' face was not to be believed.

Also - the Carol Haney "Steam Heat" was marvelous. Isn't that the show where she broke her leg and her understudy took over the role? It was Shirley McClain and it was instant stardom.

Carlin is still going strong - and more outrageous than ever. And I still think that Bob Newhart's phone call as Abner Doubleday trying to sell his "game" is one of the funniest things ever done. I have that original "Buttoned-Down Mind" album and it's a treasure.

Funny thing, though - I never really was wild about his sitcoms.

Intriguing quiz. Can only have subjective answers, of course. I agree with all those named here so far. However, I'll now nominate some others I truly think equally deserving a mention here.

Story Teller: I'll nominate Jean Shepherd. He wrote many satire-humor Americana short stories and a few TV programs ("A Christmas Story" and "Jean Shepherd's America" series on PBS among his best). BUT...his long-running forte was as longwinded latenight storyteller on radio station WOR out of NYC (probably picked up by other stations nationwide too). His books of short stories are still in some public libraries.

Comedy Team: I'll nominate adding Abbott and Costello to our list.

Singer/Performer: Jolson's above the lot. But a second-tier group could include Rudy Valle, Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Arthur Godfrey, Ethel Merman, and an early Wayne Newton (before he squatted in Vegas).

Dance Act: For me it's Nicholas Bros (Harold & Fayard). Born 1920/21, they were in over 50 Hollywood films mostly in 1940s but cameos into 1980s, and were 1991 Kennedy Center honorees. Their forte was acrobatic dance: daredevil splits, slides, flips; but always with quality expressive dancing included.

All Around Greatest Entertainer: I'm honored to stand and nominate Jimmy Durante to our worthy list.

P.S. - It breaks my heart to not also nominate Charles Kuralt and today's Garrison Keillor to our Story Teller list. But my ONE permitted new nominee HAS to be Jean Shepherd.

Parman and JimVA (does that name have anything to do with the Veterans Administration?) You're really expanding my mind.

I've seen George Carlin many times over the years and he's still fresh and current with his observations. Bob Newhart was great in his early recordings and TV standups,(I probally still have the Button Down Mind of Bob Newhart record around somewhere) but I agree that his TV sitcoms were only so-so.

And Jim: I never cared for Abbott and Costello, in fact I tune out when they start the "Who's on First" routine. I'd suggest Burns and Allen on radio as one of the greatest comedy duets. But I agree on the Great Durante (As Cole Porter wrote, You're the Top....You're the nose on the great Durante.)

Y'know, making a choice is a tad more difficult than I imagined; howsomever:

Story teller: Joe E. Lewis/Alan King

Comedy Team: Marx Brothers (Now I never saw all five of them together and they're best known for their movies but they did perform on stage).

Singer/performer (Musician/performer ok?): Victor Borge

Dance Act: Dunno; do not recall seeing a great dancer other than Cyd Charisse.

All around: Tossup between Sammie Davis, Jr., and Jimmy Durante.

Note to JimVA: Wayne Newton started in Las Vegas and grew from there. In '58-'59 you could see him and his brother Jerry at the Fremont Hotel, downtown Vegas -- for like 50 cents for a beer... The Fremont had to get some sort of special dispensation from the powers that be -- (the Gaming Commmission?) for him to perform because he was underage. A story at the time was that Jerry had to be there because he was family and an adult.

IT'S LIKE ---how great canperformers be?

Who could argue about Durante? He did everything - radio, movies, tv - night clubs. I remember as a very young kid my folks took me to my first Bway show -- Durante - AND Ethel Merman. "Stars in Your Eyes."

And Aviaqua -- Joe E. Leiws? What a great act. Of course, they killed his life when Sinatra did his bio pic, but some of the best night club shows I ever saw were Lewis' at the Copa ("Vroom, vrooom, arrangements - we got arrangements.") I forgot his piano man's name - but he was an important of the act.

Speaking of great entertainers - backed up by piano men --- Billy Daniels - with Benny Payne. "That Old Black Magic" had the ladies falling off their chairs.

It's not quite in this category - but there was a singer named Mabel Mercer - I caught her quite late in her career - at a little upstairs club in New York - with Sam Hamilton at the piano. She came out, walked very slowly - sat down on a chair in the bend of the piano - and Bingo! there she was - Grandmother Love. The most touching torch songs - the best of them "Little Girl Blue" - and "At the End of a Love Affair" I had two 78 albums of hers- and lost them somewhere along the way - but if you get a chance to listen to her stuff, you'll understand what I mean.

It's a funny thing about Wayne Newton. Way back before anyone ever heard of him - and he had his first headline act in Vegas - after working the lounges - he was promoted via a radio commercial in which Jack Benny said he was the greatest act he had ever seen. I thought that was nothing but hype and wondered what Benny was talking about- and the guy really isn't my cup of tea - but I was visiting my mother in Florida some years ago - and he was at the big theatre in Sunrise and she wanted to go - and the guy knocked me for a loop. He really knows how to grab and hold an audience.

And Victor Borge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know - I was wrong - it is IMPOSSIBLE to zero in on just 5 top favorites. But I still feel that my all-time #1 will remain SAMMY DAVIS, JR. One night on the old Johnny Carson show, Joey Bishop was a guest - and he said that, in his opinion, if you listed the best of the singers, the best of the dancers, the best of the impressionists, AND the best of the drummers - he'd have to be at or near the top in each category.

See - I told you this board would be fun! Let's hear from more of you.

Parman, these names go beyond the bounds of favorite five or whatever but there seems to be at least one strong objector to combining Radio, TV, etc., then setting up this segment.

I'm gonna run some names out here in addition to some above and I'd like to know what others think and/or where they would fit in the "Golden Age of..."

First, Joe E. Lewis. Myron Cohen, Tom Leher, Shelly Berman, Joe Penner, Alan King, Lili St. Cyr, Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Washington, Ethel Waters, Billie Holliday, Ethel Merman, Harry Belafonte, Where would Louis Prima and Keely Smith be placed? How about Liberace? He had TV specials but TV was not his primary venue. Also, Milton Berle was in night clubs before he got to be a TV celebrity. Elvis: Primarily movie, TV star or entertainer?

Somewhere in my early 20s, I'd been watching some TV show when he first appeared. He'd called himself...at last, a performer with talent. And so he was, then. I also remember early Sammy Davis Jr similarly.

Your Vegas update on Newton was welcome news to me. I was Missourian, but I went East 26 years ago. I never heard about nor saw Newton on national programs again.

Re your "various names...are they "entertainers"? I'd say so! Each in own niche, natch. Shelley Berman still lives. And occasionally does a paid gig. I still have his home email address, but I'll not share it with other than firmly fervent former fans.

I'm also a jazz music fan...so I applauded most of your names within that genre. And how about a group name for us C/W fans...Grand Ol' Opry?

I sure hope that some of our other SN friends will respond to your posts ---- I just got back home from some business in NYC today - but later this evening, I'm going to attempt to respond to some of the great names you folks have listed. I have many special memories of most of them - and a few a bit more obscure, but equally talented.

It's intersting to note how frequently these names cross over categories - but that's just an indication of their versatility -- how they moved from clubs to movies to tv, and more.

In my own memory, I'll try to trace some of that movement - I think it will prove to be intersting.

Anyway - I'll get back to you all a bit later - and then we'll see what this new board takes us. So far, so good.

Grand Ol' Opry and National Barn Dance... or is that before your time? Their performers toured, too...

Another form of entertainment in the Texas Panhandle, Oklahoma, and I don't know where else during the Depression were Tent Shows -- Harley Sadler comes to mind. He had a traveling group that set up a large tent in towns and communities then they performed melodramas... played a few peformances then moved on to the next town...usually had some country-type music, too..Come to think of it, back in the 20's Sadler had a winter stock company in Houston. Said that he had fired Clark Gable. According to Sadler, at that time Gable got stage fright performing before live audiences...Sadler later said that he had fired a million dollars....

I have followed the listing proposed, but it leaves out some categories and people.

Story Teller: Walter Cronkhite. I am sure there are groans for that, but I have always enjoyed him in his news role, in many specials, and even in his later years doing the New Year' Eve extravaganzas from Viennna with some of the world's greatest conductors.

Comedy Team: Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin. Unfortunately I was in Europe most of the period from January 1946 until July 1959, so I missed a lot of Radio and TV. The Sid Caesar, Milton Berle and numerous other shows on TV so I am not that knowledgeable about some of the people suggested by others.

Singer/Performer: I can't believe that no one has nominated the "Chairman of the Board", Hoboken's Frank Sinatra. He was a fantastic actor, i.e. From Here to Eternity, and I don't think he has any peer among the singers in the past 75 years. If the choice were only singer I would have Frankie in the All Around Greatest Entertainer and my choice here would be Ella Fitzgerald.

Dance Act: So lets go Flying Down to Rio and see Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. For backup I would nominate Gener Kelly or Cyd Charisse. Both class acts.

All Around Greatest Entertainer. DUKE! DUKE! John Wayne. Never saw a movie with him in it that I didn't like.

Recognizing that this has been a preset list, I would like to see Opera Singers, Male and Female and Conductor added surely there is a place for the likes of Luciano Pavarotti or Maria Callas or Leonard Bernstein. But I think this idea is great. Good Job Mr. Parman.

YES THE TENT SHOW THEY WOULD COME TO EVERY LITTLE TOWN IN WESTERN OKLAHOMA. COUNTRY MUSIC OR HILLBILLY BACK THEN. SOME FUNNY STUFF I WORKED FOR SOME TRYING TO HUSTLE SOME KIND OF CURE ALL CRAP. 10 CENTS FOR EACH DODZEN I SOLD I DIDNT DO VERY WELL. BTW TO NAME A FEW WHO BEGAN IN TENT SHOWS LIKE GENE AUTRY JAMMY WAKLEY JOHNNG BOND BOB WILLS ECT. I WOULD LOVE A COUNTRY MUSIC DISCUSSION PAGE

Yes, littlewall; not only at tent shows but I guess the 30's saw the end of the Medicine Shows, too. Some entertainment, sometimes a geek, but always a hustle for some bottle of stuff that would cure everything from baldness to social diseases. It undoubtedly was 50% or more alcohol as Medicine Shows seemed to do particularly well in dry counties...

YOu have all taken this new board into such exciting territory - areas I really hadn't dreamed of when the idea was first suggested - but who could argue with even ONE of the great names that have just been posted here?

I have such wonderful memories of almost every single one -- except -- except, I'm ashamed to admit that the name Harley Sadler is a new one on me. But I'm gonna' find out - I guarontee!

Some of the names I haven't even thought of in years -- Tom Lehrer, for example. I can remember his off-beat, irreverent material that was way ahead of its time (anyone remember "The Old Dope Peddler (doing bad by doing good -- or was it vice versa?). Such sly wit.

Louis Prima and Keely Smith sure DO belong - even when they went from headlne act to lounge act - backed not by Louis' big band any more but by Sam Buttera and the Witnesses. Keely Smith is still going strong -- and her son-in-law is her accompianist.

Who mentioned Joe Penner? That was my dad's favorite comedian -- Wanna Buy a Duck? He was really mostly before even MY time, but I did see him in a few movies when I was a kid. Funny man.

I remember Ethel Waters as a very mature woman and marvelous actress - but I saw some very early movie clips when she was the most wonderful blues singer -- with a pretty raunchy background, too, from what I read years ago. But who could forget her in Member of the Wedding - with a very , very young Julie Harris? Well, I am certainly wandering here -and I'll try to get more on an even keel and try to stay with one thread - but come on - all of you - keep those names and those memories and those opinions coming.

Little Wall - you are the King of Country - no doubt about it. I have always loved your memories of all those B westerns, but the country singers you talk about are in a class apart. Bravo!

That reminds of a funny line thrown by a terrific comedian, who never really made it to the top -- Jackie Miles. He used to do a routine about Gene Autry and western movies. He said "So here's old Gene - riding on Champion - a-strummin' on his geetar - and a singing' - jes' asingin' -- and he don't know the Indians are up on top of the bluff about to drop boulders on him. Y'see, them injuns is mad at him from the LAST movie." That routine always broke me up.

Okay - that's it from me - I'm plumb tuckered out. Keep it comin'.

I LOVE THIS PAGE YOU ALL BRING BACK SO GOOD TIMES. PAT BUTRM USED THEY LINE IN SOME OF HIS STUFF ABOUT GENE, BTW I SAW GENE IN PERSON AT THE COLORADO STATE FAIR IN 1954 HE HAD A LITTLE TO MUCH TO DRINK HE WAS TO RIDE IN TO THE AREA ON A CHAMP LOOK ALIKE HORSE. AND HE FELL OFF BUT GOT AND SAID HE HAD ALWAYS WANTED TO DO THAT BUT THE DIRECTOR WOULD NOT LET, EVEN LOADED HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST SHOWMAN IN WESTERN MUSIC HISTORY

yes it was par. that was his second wife his first enna passed away in 1980 he married jackie in 81 she worked at the palm springs bank where he banked. do think she know what she was doing?

From the look on her face when they handed her that trophy I'd say she made the right play. All Star material, huh?

at the mention of Walter Cronkite as a story teller.

I recall a few years ago, I was working on an advertising contract for a client, with a small town newspaper in Connecticut - which shall be nameless. The publisher told me he was on his way to charitable function one snowy night - and on his way there, he noticed a green cadillac at the side of the road - and the driver was gesturing for him to stop.

He pulled up - saw the driver was Walter Cronkite, who was on his way to speak at that function. So the publisher told Cronkite to follow him and he'd lead him to the door - which was done. When they hit the parking lot - they chatted for a few moments - naturally the question of "what do you do for a living" came up - and when Cronkite asked him how long he had owned the paper, the publisher said "Oh - I don't OWN the paper - I'm just the publisher."

"Oh" - said Cronkite - and walked away - and never came near the guy again that evening.

It may have happened - may not have happened - may have happened differently - but it was an interesting story.

What I enjoy a lot with Cronkite are his annual broadcasts on New Year's Day from Austria - with all the Strauss waltzes - I missed it this year - but I guess it was on PBS - it always is.

I also remember some years ago when a poll named him the most trusted man in America. That's quite something for a newscaster. But his stature has never dropped - so I wonder about that story. Maybe I shouldn't have recounted it. Oh well - Walter - if it ain't so - forgive me.

By the way - you're right about Jean Shepard. I always loved his PBS show with him in his Houseboat, exploring, and talking. What an imagination. And he wrote "The Christmas Story" about the kid who wanted B-B-Gun for Christmas - that has become a seasonal staple.

hey enjoyed your story on walter. btw i did get a red ryder bb gun for christmas one year

How many of you tune in public radio to listen to Garrison Keillor - of Lake Woebegone, Wisconsin?

He's the closest thing to Jean Shepard - although he doesn't work alone, as Jean did. But also - a marvelous imagination.

When I started this thing the other day I forgot another of my favorite teams -- they didn't do night clubs - but did radio and tv -- Bob and Ray ... also, wickedly funny imagination.

When it came to comedy, it wasn't just the headliners - but the second-tier of comedians - who make it into the big nightclubs once in awhile, but generally played the smaller venues - and of course, were regulars in The Catskills.

Names like Gene Baylos - Al Bernie - Jack Carter - Sid Gould (a riotously funny man) - Professsor Irwin Corey - and a few of them are still going strong - reviving the Catskills tradition -- Freddy Roman, Mal Z. Lawrence, Sal Anthony, Marilyn Michaels.

It's funny - that in those days there were hardly any women doing comedy. I remember Jean Carrol. And the great Martha Raye, of course - who was also a terrific blues singer. But it wasn't until TV took hold that gals like Totie Fields and Joan Rivers broke through - and today, there are dozens of genuinely funny women.

The trouble with today's comedy though - it is mostly based on the word f**k. It's a contest to see who can use that word the most times in a 20 minute stand-up. To me, that ain't comedy.

Yes, that is a wonderful place... all the kids are above average, etc...Keillor has great guests, too.

And the second bananas-- Prof. Irwin Corey as always funny -- as were the others you mentioned -- and previously, Jackie Mason... There was a vaudville-type review at the Silver Slipper in Las Vegas during the 50's and into the 60's. Hank Henry was the MC, whatever; his foil was named Sparky Kaye... it was a review with dancers, etc.

Another female was Roberta Sherwood... always had a cardigan-type sweater.

There are two or three names I've been saving, awaiting an opening like your last sentence. Yeah! Scatalogical humor is the domain of many current so-called comedians. They remind me more of kids on the playgrond using dirty words then covering their mouths and giggling. It creates a reaction but it ain't funny; it is embarassing.

I cannot recall Joe E. Lewis, Myron Cohen, Red Skelton, Jack Benny, George Allen, Jimmy Durante -- any of the truly great comedians using either foul language or in-your-face routines.

It seems to me that those routines commenced with folks like Shecky Greene and Don Rickles -- Buddy Hackett could be foul-mouthed, too --and Redd Foxx

You're right - never a bad word from the old timers. BUT --I have some tapes of Friar's Club roasts, where the very same people DID get down and dirty - andyou wouldn't believe some of the stuff.

At one roast, Art Linkletter (of all people) sad "You know, I don't usually do material like this -- but I knew if I came here, I would have to. So I've been practicing all week by telling my mother-in-law to go "F" herself."

And there's one roast I have on tape - a tribute to Bogart, and the wildest mouthof all belonged to Lauren Bacall. Those affairs were really something. Of course, when they did them on TV, with Dean Martin as the host, they cleaned them up completely - so they weren't nearly as funny.

You mention Shecky Greene and Buddy Hackett. Yes, Buddy Hackett, in particular, could be truly raunchy - but somehow, at least as far as I'm concerned, you didn't mind it much out of him - maybe because he had that impish, kind of "ain't we terrible?" look on his face. Funny, funny man.

Did you ever hear Shecky Greene sing, by the way? He has a hell of a voice.

Cure all's

Any one remember "Hadacol?" Wildly popular great stuff. Only problem, it was 50 percent Alcohol. Winos were buying at a buck a bottle and going on the best and cheapest drunk they had in years. Once the Alcohol content was revealed it was banned and that brought down the company. Lots of old ladies hated to give up their Hadacol, said it made them feel good.

Tiger Tom

ON MARTHA RAYE I SAW HER ON A LOT OF USO SHOWS MOST OF THE ONES YOU TALK ABOUT HERE I SAW IN USO SHOWS WHICK AS YOU CAN UNDERSTANS WITH A LOT OF GIS A LOT OF SEX IN THEM I DO KNOW HOW SOME OF FEMALES BOB HOPE REALLY WOULD MAKE THEM UPSET I WOULD BE BACK STAGE AS I WAS A MP AT THAT TIME. THEY CAME OFF CRYING HOW THEIR CAME BACK NEXT MAKES YOU WONDER ABOUT FEMALES LOLOLO ON HADACOL FIRST TIME I SAW HANK WILLIAMS ON THE HADACOL TOUR. BTW PARMAN TELL THIS DUMB OKIE WHAT IS THE CATSKILLS?

sometimes us dumb northeasterners forget that our back yard isn't that well known elsewhere. But YOU - far from a dumb Okie - and I'll let you prove it to me when I come down to ride in your pick-up. I'm gonna' bring my own 6-pack and John Deere cap - but YOU gotta' supply the shotgun in the rack

The Catskills ------ a range of small mountains about an hour north of New York City - where dozens and dozens of small resort hotels - and a few mamoth ones - grew up in the 30's, 40's, 50's -- catering mostly to New York Jewish clientele - and that area became known as The Borscht Belt. Just about all the famous comics started there - there was one talent agency, The Rapp office, that booked all the acts in that area, and comics and singers would go up over a weekend and play three or four places - often doing shows in two different places on a Saturday night.

In addition to hotels, the area also had many bungalow colonies -- little cottages, and a big recreation building, mostly called a "casino" - although there was no gambling - where there was dancing - and the acts also played those places.

Hardly any of these places are left today - even the big ones, like Grossingers and The Concord are gone - but in their day it was a very exciting area - especially for waiters and busboys -- because in the bungalow colonies - the wives and children stayed all summer - and the husbands came up only on weekends -- that's why it was exciting for the waiters during the week (LOL).

If you ever saw the movie "Dirty Dancing" - that was a typical Catskills summer resort.

I'll bet some of our posters who came from New York could also tell you some stories about that area - including Marty (before he was Marty from Miami)and Mort Kail - right guys? Anyone else have any Borscht Belt stories?

Produced and marketed by Louisiana State Senator Dudley LeBlanc. Supposedly once asked why he named it Hadacol, he said, "Well, I had to call it something!"

Anyway, Hadacol did have some vitamin compound in it but was 12% alcohol. In addition to the Hank Williams Radio Show, he sponsored the Hadacol Caraven -- a re-e-ely big medicine show. Besides Hank Williams there were entertainers like Roy Acuff, Sharkey Bonano's Dixieland Band -- George Burns and Gracie Allen, Bob Hope, Chico Marx!

In some places you could get in with 10 Hadacol box tops. Come to think of it, maybe that was the only way you could get in -- made for a lot of sales.

LeBlanc sold the company before it got into the difficulty with the FDA.

thanks par i know now what you are talking about. i had never seen a jewish or black guy till went in the army. sounds like fun for the busboyd uring the week up there. btw on bob hope and hank williams, hank was on stage keep calling him back on stage bob hope was next real pissed off he did not like country music, however going on stage he got a cowboy hat from some one and called him self hank hope

reminds me of a story I heard once from Maxwell Sackheim. He was an advertising genius generally credited with the birth and growth of mail order advertising - so if you're teed off at the amount of junk mail you get- you can thank HIM for it.

Early in his career he had a publishing client who sold what Sackheim named The Little Leather Library. These were very small little books - maybe 3 inches by 4 inches - and they were boil-downs of some of the great classic literature.

He was called before the Federal Trade Commission on the charge that the name was misleading because they were not really leather - just an imitation. He claimed innocence on the basis that The Little Leather Library name was acceptable because the books contained damned little leather.

He wound up with a consent agreement to stop using that name. I remember seeing some of those little books around the house when I was a kid - and in the seminar at which he told this story about himself, the show of hands of those who were familiar with the books was enormous. It shows you that it truly DOES pay to advertise.

PARMAN IS THAT THE SAME A THE BIG LITTLE BOOKS WE HAD AS KIDS?

If I remember Big Little Books - they had cardboard covers and were very thick ... whereas the Little Leather Libary books were quite thin.

I had a whole collection of Big Little Books. They had a hard cardboard cover, text and pictures on alternate pages. They were around even before comic books. I also had copies of Famous Funnies, which was the first of the comic books, also had the first Superman. Owned lots of Science Fiction, Western and Detective pulp magazines (they cost 10 cents each). Alas, my mother threw all of them out when I was in the Navy.

Started reading my first paperbacks when in the service. Anyone remember Modern Library books? Started at about 50 cents after the war. I still have lots of them.

Yes Parman: I also spent some summers of the late 1940's in the Borsch Circuit. My family was at a bungalow colony and I used to sneak into the big hotels to see the shows and meet rich girls. I'd recommend reading Marjory Morningstar for a description of the Catskill hotels in their heyday. By the way, you say they are one hour north of NYC (maybe by plane). Used to take us four or five hours to drive up after work Friday night and even longer if we drove back Sunday night. (Remember the Red Apple. It's still there.) We usually left very early Monday morning. Then I'd try to get some sleep before going to college in the afternoon. But Roberta Peters kept me awake with her practicing scales. That's another story.

I recently met Tania Grossinger at a press reception. She was the niece of Jenny Grossinger and wrote the book "Growing up at Grossingers". We had lots of memories of the same people -- entertainers, ball players, boxers, politicians, etc. If you want stories of the old Catskill Mountain hotels, read her book. Morty from the Bronx.

I don't know how interesting all this is for our other posters - but those summertime memories are the best.

Not only the Red Apple Rest on old Route 17 - but The Orseck Boys place, too.

Marjorie Morningstar referred to the Catskills, of course, but really, Wouk was talking about Scaroon Manor, on Schroon Lake in the Adirondacks. They filmed the movie there, too. Today it belongs to some evangelical religious institution, as do almost all the places around the Schroon Lake perimeter.

It's really amazing how that resort area gave birth to so many of the great entertainers of the past 60 or 70 years - it would be hard to name a famous comic, singer or novelty act who didn't play up there. At age 14, against my parents' wishes, I spent a summer playing piano in the house band at one of the smaller hotels - but also had to work as a bus boy during the day. Had to lie about my age to do it.

Just read on the NY Times' web page that Al Hirschfeld died.

Thanks Aviaqua: I usually check the NY Times obit every morning ("to make sure I'm still alive". Was it George Burns who said that?) but I didn't know about Al Herschfeld. Couldn't find an obit page on the Times web page, but found it on Yahoo's pickup from Reuters.

I recently saw Herschfeld on some TV program. I believe it was about people who reach the age of 100. He was still working on his marvelous drawings and seemed full of life. Too bad he didn't make it to the Century mark.

By the way, is his daughter Nina still alive? Everyone must know that he had lines spelling out NINA hidden in all his drawings. The fun was trying to find them. He usually gave the number of times, like NINA3.

An amazing career - not only becuase he was so wonderful - but also the fact that he kept it up right to the end.

There was a retrospective of his some years ago and it was interesting to see the change in his work In the very earliest of his work he was much more "literal" - and hadn't yet worked out the line technique that is so easily identified as his style over the past 50 years or so.

In an unfortunate note, he recently sued his long time agent and art gallery, Marge Feiden (I may have spelled the name wrong) - who, after the many, many years she was the exclusive sales rep for his work, turned out to have swindled him out of tons of money, or so thelawsuit claimed. I never heard the outcome but it's always sad when a long, long relationship like that turns out to be a case of misplaced trust.

Onew of the delights in dining at Sardi's, in NYC's theatre district isn't the food - it's the hundreds of Hershfeld drawings that adorn the walls.

MortKail, yes; the story says he is survived by his daughter and a grandson. -- There's a lengthy obit accessable from the Times' home page.

Parman, I've read and heard about Sardi's the display of Hirschfeld's cartoons but I guess I'm less likely to visit and see them than you are to go huntin' with littlewall....

Aviqua and Parman:

There is a long obituary in today's (Jan 21) NY Times with a sampling of his great drawings.

Yes Parman, I've been to Sardi's several times first as a newspaper reporter and later as a Public Relations flack (on both sides of the check so to speak -- even though it never came out of my pocket). Always admired Hirschfeld's drawings there. Now I'll have to get a book of his most famous caricatures. I'm sure there will be some exhibits in New York (like the Charles Adams series they always have at the main library)

I see in the Times obit that he dropped the suit against Marge Feiden and signed a new contract with her in which he had complete control of his drawings.

While on the subject of charicatures, the great artist-advocate of WWII GIs and later political cartoonist, Bill Maldin, is in a hospital. I think he's in the final stages of Alzheimers. Fans are encouraged to write to him. Ill find the address and post it later if anyone is interested. Morty

sorry to hear about madin a lot of his stuff is on display at the 45 the div. display in oklahoma city

If anyone wants to write to Bill Maldin,who is in a nursing home, send c/o Gordon Dillow, Orange County Register, 625 Grand Ave., Santa Ana, CA 92701.

Sad to relate that Bill died today.

Yes. I saw the obituary in today's newspaper. He was a great spokesman for the average GI during WWII. I appreciated his cartoons even though I was a sailor in the Pacific. I still use his line when I come upon a spectacular sight: "Beatiful view. Is there one for the enlisted men?" by two officers watching a sunset over the ocean.

on mauldin there is his org willie and joe drawing at hte 45th inf. display in oklahoma city

did my bit during the Korean "police action" -- but when I think of WWII reporting, two names immediately come to mind -- Bill Mauldin and Ernie Pyle.

Just a few weeks ago, one of the cable channels - probably Turner Classic Movies - did "A Walk in the Sun" - for some reason, I always associated that film with Pyle - but I just looked it up and found I was mistaken. Marvelous and gut-wrenching film, though - and it turns out it was based on a novel written by a 27 year old GI.

Doesn't take away from Pyle's exploits - or Mauldin's wry observations.

Parman: There was a movie about Ernie Pyle in the late 1940s. I believe it was called GI Joe. It dramatized some of his stories from the Italian campaign. I believe Burgess Merideth played the Pyle role and Robert Mitchim was the officer who led the division. It really made you feel gritty, dirty and hungry, like the GIs he depicted. A Walk In the Sun also had the same feeling of playing a small part in the big war. Morty

there was a wonderful interview with Jules Pfeiffer - who reminisced at great length about Bill Mauldin. Very interesting segment - and he brought out a lot about Mauldin's later years, which were kind of difficult. As an editorial page cartoonist, he never hit the same stride as he did during the war.

They also showed the cartoon with the 2 officers viewing the sunset.

I also read this morning about the passing of Nell Carter. Although not from "The Golden Age" - she was a solid gold performer ... I saw her at her best on Bway in "Ain't Misbehavin", a Tony winner for her.

agree on both of these guys and in my 30 plus years as a enlisted man in the army i can even relate to willie and joe. btw for what ever reason i had to change my log in here on senior net

Saw the interview with Jules Pfeiffer --another cartoonist of note-- Kind of interesting that both Bill Mauldin and Ernie Pyle lived in New Mexico. Bill Mauldin, of course was a native. The only home that Ernie ever owned is in Albuquerque and is now a branch library -- The Ernie Pyle Memorial Library.

The mention of the movie, "GI Joe" reminded me of a scene that is somehow imbedded in my memory. It may have been James Whitemore's first role, or the first time I saw him. In the movie, there were several GI's standing in a wooded area and a German plane flew over, dropping hand-sized propaganda leaflets.

After the men read some of them and maybe discussed them, Whitmore's character loosened and dropped his backpack, picked up three or four of the leaflets and silently headed into the woods.

Aviaqua: I didn't think James Whitmore was in The Story of GI Joe, so I did a little research. The Story of GI Joe, based on Ernie Pyle's stories about the campaign in Italy, was filmed in 1945 and starred Burgess Meridith as Pyle and Robert Mitchem as the Leutenant.

The James Whitmore role as platoon sergeant was in Battleground, filmed in 1949 and was about the Battle of the Bulge. Both great gritty pictures. They don't make movies like that anymore. Morty

Thanks muchly. Had the movie titles confused -- could even be a different one but the scene is still there in my head! :>)

Speaking of performers... Anyone remember a group called "The Characters"?.. Think maybe the "r" was reversed in their billing...

Where? When? I am drawing a blank on that act.

But I DO remember a terrific lounge act from the 50's and 60s - and I'll bet some of you do, too.

The Vagabonds.

They played all over -- musicians -- switched instruments around -all of whom sang, were funny, -- a really entertaining novelty act. They did a little TV, but mostly played lounges - and that's one of the toughest things to do in the entertainment business.

In a night club - when an act came on, people where there to see them. In a lounge - people were talking - guys were putting move on dolls - the main attraction was booze - and the entertainers were incidental. Even in Vegas, where some of the lounge acts were quite well known. But in the small towns - fuhgadabahtit.

Especially for an act that wasn't just playing background music. But the Vagabonds pulled it off beautifully. There was another, similar group - not as successful, but I would run into them playing one small town after another - anyone remember The Chuckles?

But you really have me stumped with The Characters. Avi. Tell us more about them.

Ah, yes; The Vagabonds. Think maybe the Characters were a similar and obviously lesser known group. Had a similar act and there were four or five guys-- I've really forgotten -- they played the Sahara Lounge in Las Vegas in the late 50's and into the 60's.

All of which rings another bell...Freddie, in fact. Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys....not the same kind of act, of course, but it just registered...The afore-mentioned Louis Prima, Keely Smith with Sam Butera and the Witnesses also were in the Sahara Lounge.

So was Martin Denney(sp?)...and another group that played Hawaiian music whose name I've forgotten....

In that time frame -- and prior to Howard Hughes, then Hilton, then other corporations getting into the business in Las Vegas, you could see lounge acts for the cost of a drink -- no minimum.

The show rooms, however, had a cover charge: two drink, $2.00 minimum.

One of the Characters was a fellow named Blackie Hunt who, as I recall, had red hair. Anyway, his wife became Lt. Governor of Nevada -- and she had some background in show business -- but I dunno what or where although I believe she is a native of Las Vegas.

From a column in today's Santa Fe New Mexican newspaper:

Santa Fe's Chris Calloway plays the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts in New York today as part of the Reel to Real family series that combines fabulous film moments with live performance and audience participation. Carol Channing makes a rare appearance tonight to pay tribute to Calloway's father, Cab Calloway, and her aunt, Blanche Calloway, who introduced Cab to show business.

There are some golden names!

in one of the Broadway revivals of Porgy and Bess.

The one I missed, though - being much too young - was the original Sportin'Life - who was John Bubbles, from the comedy-dance team of Buck and Bubbles. I saw the team many times in the waning days of vaudeville, and on early TV - but I understand that John Bubbles, as a solo performer, was wonderful.

Incidentally - I don't know how many of you ever heard an incredible recorded version of Porgy and Bess - done on Bethlehem records - it was either the very late 40s or early 50's - and starred all the great Bethlemem artists. A very unlikely cast, but marvelous. It featured Frances Faye as Bess - Mel Torme as Porgy - a great jazz trombonist, Frankie Rosselino as Sportin' Life - and the great Johnny Hartmann as Crown. The whole thing was narrated by Al "Jazzbo" Collins. It was a 2 or 3 record set (33's) in a denim colored box - with a red kerchief sticking out of a pocket in the box - and the kerchief had the autographs of everyone on the album.

I lost it some years ago, but it was a most unusual, and exciting version of Porgy and Bess.

No, do not recall hearing that album. As you say, an unlikely but intriguing cast.

Wonder who we go to to ask one of today's recording companies to re-issue it in CD or DVD? Who's the successor to Bethlehem?

Bob Burns and his bazooka....

(Well, it kinda looks like this discussion went over like the lead balloon or that (unprintable) in the punch bowl.)

Anyway, wasn't it Tony Pastor who "played pretty for the people"? Another orchestra leader/entertainer who comes to mind: Ted Lewis -- with smile on his face and top hat in hand above his head...

Louis Prima always told his band to"play pretty for the people"

Thanks, Ita. I didn't remember whether it was Louis Prima or Pastor. By the time I got to see Louis Prima he was featured with Keely Smith, Sam Buttera and The Witnesses. Appreciate the informaton.

Aviaqua...You mentioned Ted Lewis. If I remember correctly, he always signed on and off his radio show with "Is everybody happy? Yawsa, Yowsa, Yowsa."

Yes, Ted Lewis always asked "Is Evcerybody Happy?", but he wasn't the "Yow-sah" man...that was "The Ol' Maestro' Ben Bernie.

Bernie had two theme songs on his radio broadcasts, the opener "It's a Lonesome Old Town" and the closer "Au Revoir, Pleasant Dreams."

Yow-sah, Yow-sah.

To those who remember Tom Leher, he's still around. There's a recent article about him at http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/28/1046407753895.html

Thanks Aviaqua for the link to the Tom Lehrer update. Too bad he isn't writing and singing satire now. There's so much to satirize.

And Marty, your're right as usual. I remember Ted Lewis and Ben Bernie from the old radio days. I guess I got them mixed up because I was probably doing my homework during the broadcasts. Television made that kind of double tasking impossible. Morty

Business took me out of town. But I'm glad to see that there's been some action on this forum. Thaks, all

Ted Lewis - now there was a wonderful entertainer - with that beat up top hat- and the oh,so lazy manner.

He happened to be one of the worst clarinetists I ever heard, but he had a certain something that made audiences love him. Kind of the same rascally charm that Phil Harris had...another real crowd please.

I remember seeing Lewis at the old Copa in New York when I was very young - my dad just went crazy over Ted Lewis - and I think it was my first-ever night club experience. The production numbers, with the Copa Girls - and always a male house singer -- somehow they all looked like Tyrone Power. And the maitre d's, with their "right this way" - and leading you way to the back of the room till their handshake was filled with a "courtesy". And then of course, if it was the dinner show, the awful food. But what a great place! And Jack Eigen up in the lounge, with his late night radio talk show -- the forerunner of Barry Gray. I think Eigen then went down to Miami Beach - was it the Fontainebleau lounge? And there was another late night talk guy from a night club lounge - but his name eludes me. Help anyone?

Come to think of it, it's funny how many entertainers with the last name "Lewis" played the Copa -- Ted Lewis - Joe E. Lewis (arrangements, we got arrangments, voom, voom) - Monica Lewis - and of course, Jerry Lewis. Any more, anyone?

By the way which one- Ben Bernie or Bob Burns - was "The Arkansas Traveler" My memory tells me Bob Burns, but I'm not sure.

I'm 99.97% sure that Bob Burns was the Arkansas Traveler...

I'm pretty sure The Arkanses Traver was Bob Burns. Remember he played the Bazooka (a sort of makeshift trombone). A name GIs later gave to a shoulder held artillery weapon. Morty

Aviaqua - Thanks so much for the link to Tom Lehrer! We've had his records and CDs since the early 1950s, and just got a 4-CD set.

I just happened to click on this discussion and found it interesting, I would like to add my "2 cents", LOL I must say I agree with most of the ones named,but I.d like to add to great entertainers, after my vote for Sammy Davis, as the, GREATEST ! he was a dancer,singer,actor , musician, Another comic who always breaks me up is Dick Van Dyke, and I like to add to a list of singers,, is Nate King Cole, My father-in-law had a barber shop in Philadelphia, across from the Carmen Theater, where years ago you could see a movie and catch a Vaudeville show, between shows the preformers would come to hang out, and it was in his shop that Abbott and Costello worked on their, "Who's on first, Whats on second " routine... And Kate Smith who was just a young girl would visit with my mother-in law and often ask to walk the baby in his carrage along the avenue, the baby was my husband,

Haven't checked out this site in a spell.

Mary Z: a four cd set? I have, Tom Leher Revisted, An Evening (wasted) With Tom Leher, and Tom Leher: That Was The Year That Was. Guess I better check the record store or Amazon. What am I missing?

Diva31: Yes, I believe that most of "our generation" will agree that Sammy Davis Jr. was the greatest. I, too, enjoyed Dick Van Dyke, particularly his loose-jointed dancing...imagine Dick van Dyke, Donald O'Conner and Ray Bolger in dance act! I've never been to the East Coast but spent the summer of '47 in Wenatchee, Washington, and the King Cole Trio made a stop at a theater there...later in life, I saw him alone in Las Vegas... It is good to hear stories of these people as people, not just performers....

Aviaqua - The set is called "The Remains of Tom Lehrer". It's all the old favorites, plus some from The Elctric Company, and some stuff that I hadn't heard before noted as "previously unissued recordings" ("N Apostrophe T", "Selling Out", and "(I'm Spending) Hanukkah in Santa Monica". Actually it's a boxed set with 3 CDs and a book with facts, Q&A, notes on the recordings, and printed lyrics. There are some repetitions of recordings, but who cares. I'm pretty sure I got it from amazon within the last year.

Mary Z, thank you muchly! There are some duplicates in the three that I have but I'll check for the set..

SORRY TO HAVE BEEN OUT OF ACTION RECENTLY ....\But I'm back - and glad to see some action here.

I don't think ayone wold argue much about Samy Davis, Jr - the man was really an incredible entertainer.

Probably the last time anyone was considered in that light would have been Jolson - but Sammy could so many, many things tat he could take your breath away.

Back in the late 60's, my company was going business on Grand Bahama Island - and he played there on a New Year's Eve - and I have never seen anything like that show. He just went on and on and on - finally ran out of breath - sat down on the edge of thestage, and proceeded to just do impressions, with names thrown at him from the audience. It was an unbelievable demonstration of talent.

And to top it all off, he got back up - got behind his set of drums and proceeded to kick start a 16 piece band in siuch a way that the musicians themselves were shaking their heads in wonder.

When you think back on not only the greatest entertainers you've seen, but the single greatest performances, that would have to be at the very top of my list.

I am delighted to see so much interested in Tom Lehrer. Back in the 50's, when satire was its best - with people like Shelley Berman, and Ronnie Graham and Mort Sahl around - I think that was high point for really intelligent comedy. And except for Lenny Bruce,you never heard a foul word.

Just like today, huh?

He still lives, last I've heard. Even does a gig, time to time. I enjoyed emails with him in 1999 when he did a week at Atlantic City, NJ (not too far from me in northern VA).

Then, he told me that he and wife spent off-hours walking boardwalk hand-in-hand. He doesn't drink and doesn't gamble; says there's better things to do with his senior-years time. Shelley's humor was his own concoctions...and there's several out-of-print books of it.

Diva31...Please share more about your family's old Phillie shop here...Pretty please! I'll second your 2 nominations to our "Entertainers" lists. Singers can qualify as topnotch "entertainers." My 2 earlier singer-nominations were multi talented Jimmy Durante and Wayne Newton. Another personal fave singer, Bing Crosby's longtime variety radio program.

Has Gypsy Rose Lee been nominated here yet? If not, I'll correct that shameful omission of ours here...now!

His career nosedived after they did a TV "documentary" on him - showing him backstagte, preparing for an onstage performance.

It was not a good night backstage, because he was very uptight - and came down on everyone around.

He wa so abusive to some of the younger backstage people that when the show aired, it really turned people off the guy.

He said, many years later, that he was never quite able to recover his populatiry after that show - and that if he had thought about it - knowing how nervous he used to get before a show - he would never have agreed.

Buyt his "telehpone" routines - particularly his conversation with his father - were very, very funny. I always enjoyed him.

Funny, how many people used "phone" conversations in their routines -- especially Nichols and May - who were among not only the funniest of acts, but also the most intelligent. They, too, did some very great things. Do you remember the routine where he wants to become a nurse - and discusses it on the phone with his mother? Wonderful!

The earliest phone stuff I can remember - although it was only a "report" of a conversation, was Gracie Allen telling George Burns of her latest conversation with her sister, Babe. Such great stuff!

I.d be happy to share some of the stories that I.ve been writting for my grandchildren to someday read about, as I told you in my earlier post... my father -inlaw had a barber shop across the street from the Carmen Theater where they once had Vaudville acts after the Movie, and that was a big deal to go there on a date, Kate Smith was just a young girl and she would come in the shop, but come to the kitchen in the back and spend time with my MIL Jenny,and often she would ask to walk the baby in his carriage, (who the baby happen to be, was my late husband) and Paul Winchell, the ventriloquest bought a Charle Mc Carthy doll for 50 cents , from him when he was a boy.

I had a strange experience one Sunday afternoon, my grandson was here and I happen to mention something about a clothes- tree, I had in my family room, the very one that stood in the barber shop for many a year, and I was saying if only it could talk , the stories it could tell. and I told the story of Kate Smith and how she later was considered a Good Luck charm for the Philadelphia Flyers Hockey team, when she sang God Bless America they would win the game, she sang them all the way to win the Stanly Cup that year.

Suddenly a scanner I had on, that had been quiet all afternoon, we suddenly heard coming from it, Kate Smith singing God Bless America" when the song was over, the scanner was once again quiet, strange but true.

and lets not forget, Abbott and Costello rehearsing or maybe fine tuning their , "Who's on first, whats on second" routine in the shop while waiting to go on stage at the old Carmen Theater on Germantown Ave in Philly.

I don't recall - was the Carmen a straight vaudeville house - or was it a burlesque theatre. I ask because back in those days, Abbot and Costello got their earliest work as the "comic interludes" on the burlesque circuit.

I was too young for the famous Minsky's burlesque in New York City - because when LaGuardia become mayor, he closed down all the burlesque theatres. When my friends and I got old enough to drive, we used to cross the river and got to the Hudson Theatre in Union City - and watching those comics do those famous old routines was what made me want to go into show business.

In the early days of TV - on the Phil Silvers Show almost the entire cast came out of burlesque.

That must have been some barber shop, though. Re-living stuff like that is so much fun!

More on Tom Lehrer: I just noticed on our bookshelf a Tom Lehrer songbook. It's a book of the words and music (piano arrangements) of the songs from "Songs by Tom Lehrer," "An Evening Wasted with Tom Lehrer," and from "That Was the Year That Was." Ours is a large paperback.

TOO MANY SONGS BY TOM LEHRER
With not enough drawings by Ronald Searle
Copyright 1981
Published by Pantheon Books
ISBN 0-394-51957-4
ISNB 0-394-74930-9(pbk.)

I,m sorry to say I don;t really know, I believe it may have been both Burlesque and later vaudeville, and then in the 50's it really went down hill, and later was closed and torn down. I only heard a few stories and like most young people, didn't pay much attention, My father -in-law passed away in his early 60's.and my husband passed away at 56. In philly the Troc (Ihope it's spelled right) was the famous Burlesque house.... Never having gone to see burlesque I can only tell you what I heard as a kid..the shows I remember seeing at the Carmen theater,with a date, weren't anyone I can remember making it big. You say you went into show business ? Have you ever heard of Slim and May Timberland? What did you do in show business,were you an actor,musician,??? Are you still involved in it? It's really sad to think we don't take the time to find out these things before the people involved pass away and the stories are lost with them, The shop must have been a fun place at the time,

Back in those "on the road" days, most acts had favorite places to hang around between acts -- many were pool rooms - a few coffee shops - and in NYC, a couple of delis and drug store soda counters. but the barber shop was a new one on me... that's why I asked about the Carmen.

Me? I had a couple of fun years right after college with a trio -- we did some lounges - then a little stand-up - and acting was mostly amateur stuff - in community theatres - a summer or two in stock. Then, it was time to get serious - and also a time to get enough money for three meals a day - so bye-bye show biz and hello, real life. But it was a lot of fun while it lasted. Allthough I must say, my folks were the happiest ones when I decided to come back to the real world

But I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything.

I just lost what I wrote to you, (laughing) it's "out there some where) as the song says. Yes I would imagin it was a "hang out " for them between shows, they had no place to go, most stayed in boarding houses. Now I'm thinking the time frame I,m talking about would be in the 1930"s When we were just a gleam in our daddy's eyes.

To make a long story short, I said you sound like you had an interesting life and fun doing it, But, why not try "show-biz" again,? It's never too late, and who knows maybe this time you can complete the circle. Think of the fun you'd have doing it, You already had a successful career, so the pressure if off, this time, it's to complete what you started, Think about it........

Talk about staying in boarding houses.

I can remember doing a week at a club in Washington DC called The Blue Mirror -- just our act and a few strippers. We stayed in a rooming house -- the cost? $7 a night. And with nothing to do, my two partners taught me to play pinochle -- rather, they taught me to LOSE at pinochle - cost me the whole week's pay. That was around 1952, I think.

But it was fun.

It must have been a lot of fun and quite an education. It would be fun to do it again don't you think ??? You could go around to all the nursing homes,,to entertain them, they would love you, and if you're worried about not being as good as you once were, Not to worry, they don't hear all that well anyway...I,m just teasing you,

This IS the "great entertainers" forum. So I'm trying here once more to get Nicholas Bros up there among the very best. In forum msg #5 here in January, I'd nominated them (among others). But not one here has seconded my Nicholas Bros nomination. O'well. Forum friends, do seek to know them better, if you now don't.

Here's info on them...my praises scattered throughout (sorry):

What dancers! I never saw them live, but their "Jumpin' Jive" number in the film "Stormy Weather" is CLASSIC! That 1943 movie starred Lena Horne (age 26), Bill Robinson (age 65), Cab Calloway, and just about every then-living black musical star: jazzer Fats Waller; Dooley Wilson (pianist in Casablanca); jazz musicians Zutty Singleton, drums; Coleman Hawkins, sax; Taps Miller, trumpet.

Title song was sung by Horne and danced by Katherine Dunham and her Troupe; "Dat, Dot, Dah" was performed by Babe Wallace and the Tramp Band; and besides "Jumpin' Jive," Nicholas Bros' performed in the reprise of "My My; Ain't That Somethin'?" with Horne and Calloway. In addition to "Stormy Weather," Nicholas Bros were in at least 6 other movies:

"Jealousy" 1934 Columbia; beware, a 1929 Paramount & a 1931 British film have same title.
"Kid Millions" 1934; Eddie Cantor, Ann Southern, Ethel Merman. One of 22 "1934 Goldwyn Girls" in it is Lucille Ball.
"Down Argentine Way" 1940; Don Ameche, Betty Grable; also Carmen Miranda's debut.
"Great American Broadcast" 1941; Alice Faye, Jack Oakie, The Ink Spots.
"Orchestra Wives" 1942; Glenn Miller's music, and his final appearance before fatal plane crash. One band bass player was Jackie Gleason.
"The Pirate" 1948; Judy Garland, Gene Kelly; Nicholas Bros with Kelly & Garland did the "Be A Clown" number.

Nicholas Bros always played themselves and performed one or more specialty numbers ("Jumpin Jive" in "Stormy Weather" being today valued as among their best film antics).

Names like Horne, Calloway, G. Miller, Hawkins do belong in our great entertainers discusions. As do dance teams performing in their films.

JimVA - you didn't include one of my favorite movies, featuring the Nicholas Brothers, which is, Sun Valley Serenade,1941, starring the Glenn Miller Orchestra, Sonja Henie, John Payne and Milton Berle.

They danced, with Dorothy Dandridge, to the song, "Chattanooga Choo Choo". After Miller and The Modernnaires do their familiar version of the song - then out comes the Nicholas Brothers and Dorothy D. to do a great dance number. It's one of my favorite scenes from that movie.

The Nicholas Brothers -- you are SO right! What a gret dance act that was.

The last time I saw one of them was on TV a year or so ago - I believe it was Fayard - walking with a cane. The other brother (can't recall his name at the moment) had passed away - also not terribly long ago.

I can remember them leaping high off a pedestal, and landing in a split that had me fearing for their ability to procreate.

Those old, black and white musicals, with the big bands, were better than the big MGM, technicolor spectacles.

An interesting sidelight -- in one of the films (I think it was Sun Valley Serenade, but not sure) - had John Payne playing piano with the Glenn Miller Orchestra.

If you get a chance to see the film - watch for the trumpet section. It looks like Cary Grant playing lead trumpet. No, it's not - it was Ray Anthony, when he was a sideman, in the days before he had his own band. With the trumpet up to his mouth he was a dead ringer for Cary Grant.

That film also featured Milton Berle - in the days before TV - as the band's press agent, I believe.

Jean Shepard. What a great story teller.

In the days when he had the late night show on WOR in New York - the show really emanated from the station's transmitting center in Secaucus, NJ.

One of my friends had an older brother who was a WOR engineer - and he talked Shepard into letting us come over and "observe" as Jean talked to the microphone as if it was an old, long-lost friend.

We did that every once in a while, and it was fascinating just to watch him talk. You could almost SEE his mind working as he did his monologues.

In his later years, he had a great show on public television - just floating down various waterways in his houseboat - and spinning those wonderful tales.

He was a marvel.

Thanks, forum friends, for taking time to share your own memories of these quality entertainers of yesteryear here with me/us. Appreciated!

Parman, I believe my msg #5 in January first nominated Jean Shepherd (story-teller, supreme) here. Thanks for re-nominating him again for others here.

Vera Zorina died in Santa Fe, N. M., Wednesday. The story says she made her Broadway debut in "I Married and Angel", the 1938 Rodgers and Hart musical. She starred as a celestial creature sent to Earth to dispense honesty and goodness.

I've never had the privilege of seeing a Broadway production but I do recall seeing her in movies. "Louisiana Purchase" was one.

Here's a click-on link to a bit more past info on her career:

http://www.streetswing.com/histmai2/d2zorna1.htm

Hello all

Don't know if I should have placed this in Movies, or Radio and TV, so put it here. This is an article sent to me by MeriJo and I thought some here might enjoy reading it as well.

http://www.nd.edu/~ndmag/sp2003/cubbage.html

Thanks MeriJo.

Best

Menziesii

(But first, thanks Menziessi and Merijo for the article about James Bacon.)

The weekend supplement to The Santa Fe New Mexican has a cover story about Vera Zorina that includes some memory evoking photographs. One photo shows her with Erich von Stroheim, Peter Lorre and Richard Greene in a scene from I Was an Adventuress another shows her and von Stroheim in a discussion with director Gregory Ratoff looking on. Then there's an inset photo of her and George Raft doing the tango in Follow the Boys. A reminder that Raft was a dancer before becoming a movie heavy.

Thank you for making that article on James Bacon available,I enjoyed it very much.

A true treat, Menziesii; thanks.

Another "Entertainer"...author, actor, raconteur...(I saw his name in the catalog cited in the Golden Age of Movies.) Recall seeing him in movie Short Subjects. Golly! He was a member of the Algonquin Round Table that included literary and entertainment notables from Dorothy Parker to Harpo Marx...Many aphroisms, quotes attributed to him...One goes something like, "There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't."...

Aviaqua: I remember Bob Benchley as as the best comic writer of his time(I think his short stories ran regularly in the old New Yorker magazine). He also appeared in a lot of short films, which they used to show between the feature films in the late 1930s and early 40s. (Today they would call him a stand up comedian) "The Treasurer's Report" was one of his best. He also made films for the Office of War Information which we had to watch in basic training. One about VD "She may look like your sister, but..." sticks in my mind.

I was surprised to learn that he was the lover of Dorothy Parker when I saw the biopix of her. He seemed like such a hopeless, bumbling nerd who could never be taken seriously. If you are ever in New York City, try to visit the Algonquin. They still have the round table room with pictures and momentos of the old members.

I just looked in the bookcase and find I have a book of stories called "Benchley Besides Himself" published by Harper Brothers. Thanks for reminding me to re-read him. Morty

Just finished moving - and finally back on line - but slow as hell, via dialup -- the cable people haven't showed up yet.

Bob Benchley - wow!

I think today, rather than being called a "stand-up" - he'd fall more into the category of an Andy Rooney - an all-around wit.

Funny about Dorothy Parker - she was also involved for many years withNew Yorker's fabled editor. That was some group of intellects - nothing like it around today, that's for sure.

When I was much, much, much, much younger, I'd cut school once in awhile and hit the Laffmovie on 42nd Street. That's when 42nd Street was "in-between" -- not a glittering avenue anymore, but not yet a porn center -- you could catch B westerns and third-run films -- grab a hot dog for a dime at Grant's - and get into the Laffmovie for a quarter before noon. All short subjects -- The 3 Stooges, Leon Errol, Joe McDoaks Behind the 8-Ball, Buchanan (was it George or Edgar?), Laurel & Hardy, some silents with Chaplin, Lloyd and Keaton - and yes, Robert Benchley.

His son, Peter, wrote Jaws, among other thrillers.

I would also have to include Bob and Ray in the group of Great Entertainers ..... this category didn't start that way, but it really is serving as a catch-all for these marvelous people who kind of defy precise pigeon-holding (thank goodness).

MortKail, you reminded me; I dug through our books and found a copy of Chips Off the Old Benchley , published by Harper & Brothers, copyright 1949, by Gertrude D. Benchley -- with illustrations by Gluyas Williams. The introduction is by Frank Sullivan.

Unfortunately, as much as I would like to visit New York City, see the Algonquin and other sites, that will occur only through the written word, photos, and video.

Parman, thanks for a reminder. I'd almost forgotten Joe McDoaks -- that somehow brought to mind another Joe: Penner. "Wanna buy a duck?"

I just happened to look in here today. So glad all of you liked the Cubbage article about James Bacon.

I'm very pleased that you shared it with everyone here, Menzies. That was nice.

Par, was the fellow you were trying to remember in the "Humorous Songs" folder Lou Carter?

Louie Carter - exactly.

Some few years ago, my wife and I went to dinner at a nearby restaurant that a lovely lounge, with a piano - and we used to enjoy eating dinner there, near the piano.

One Wednesday night, when a friendof min had been playing pinao there for about a year, we went - and my pal was off that night - but taking his place was little Louie Carter.

We chatted on a few of his breaks - and I told him I had his album (it was his one and only, I think). He said "C'mon - no one bought that album." Oh, yeah? I left my wife to have another drink with them, drove the few block home, grabbed the album, which had been gathering dust in the basement.

After he autographed it for me - he said "Anyone who bought that album -- I'll buy the drink for." So we had a last round.

I then went home - and played some of the album,"A Nose Full of Nickels - andother songs") and it was terrible.

But he was a nice guy - and funny, too.

Thanks for digging up the name. MY wife said "See? Nostaligia isn't all it's cracked up to be, huh?"

Parman, I realize 'tis better to let sleeping dogs do whatever but... I tried to post a clickable link to the information I found on Lou Carter but it will not click.... So...if you think it is worth the time and effort, go to http://www.musicweb.uk.net then click MusicWeb. It'll take a few seconds to come up then put Herb Ellis (!) in the "Find" box. Then click the first item that's listed. It turns out that Herb Ellis, Lou Carter, and pianist John Frigo played with Russ Morgan then Jimmy Dorsey before they formed their own trio, "Soft Winds" ('47-'52) ...then each went on to other things.

Anyway, if you'll scroll down to the bottom, you'll see that Lou Carter did the noseful of nickels bit, then went off and formed a jingle company....Just scrolling down the info on Herb Ellis will bring you some names I bet you'll recognize.

Enjoyed your li'l anecdote about your meeting Carter... Things like that gotta be memorable...and your wife is (was?) correct. Nostalgia is but a memory....

It's funny sometimes, how many years later, these little encounters crop up.

About 15 years ago, my son, who is an ace automotive technician had a chance to purchase a service station in the town where we lived - and I helped with that.

He came home on night saying that he had a customer who, he "thinks" had something to do with show business - a singer, or something - because some of the other customers recognized him and were chatting with him.

I asked the name but he didn't know- but said he'd be on the lookout for him. A week or so later the customer came back and Alan came home and told me his name was Phil Brito.

Does anyone remember Phil Brito? He was Jerry Vale before there was a Jerry Vale - you know - the handsome Italian crooner type that all the Italian mothers swooned over. I told my son that my grandmother (his GREAT Grandmother) loved Phil Brito, even though she was a Jewish mama and not an Italian mama.

My son told that to Brito - who on his next visit, brought 5 or 6 of his albums - autographed them with a flourish to "Sonia - my favorite Grandma" ... even though he was nearly as old as she was.

He was in his 70's at the time - but still singing club dates - and happy as a clam to still keep busy. I don't know if he's still alive, but now that my mmory of htis has been jogged, I'm going to look it up. He may still be at it, singing at those Italian weddings and dances. Another of those old Italian favorites from NJ is (was) Jimmy Rosselli - "The New Jersey Tony Bennett." It's really amazing - but these guys keep working - they say it's hat keeps them going. Julius La Rosa is in the same boat... and last time I heard him he was singing better than ever.

Bob hope is now 100 years old, and I have re-written his classic theme song. You must sing this to get the full feel of it!

Thanks for the memories,

Of comedy at its best,

You really met the test,

You entertained us all from the east to the west,

How lovely it was.

Thanks for the memories,

The troops you'd entertain,

In sunshine or in rain,

When war was at its worst

We knew you'd still go back again,

How lovely it was.

Many a laugh you would give us,

And many a story you'd tell us,

But oh, what a great life you showed us,

We all had fun, and no harm done.

And, thanks for the memories,

Remember you and Bing,

Together you would sing,

With you and Miss Lamour,

We all enjoyed a comic fling,

Awfully glad we knew you

And the happiness you'd bring,

We thank you, so much.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BOB!

You ought to send him those lyrics - that's the kind of thing he would probably see - and maybe even answer.

Thanks, Martyk_18, for taking time to share your poem tribute with Bob Hope's many other fans here. Good stuff!

who stared in georgie girl in the 1965 movie

Had cast including James Mason, Lynn Redgrave, Alan Bates, Charlotte Rampling, Bill Owen, Clair Kelly, Rachael Kempson and others....

It was the first movie to carry the "Mature Audience" recommendation....

I just learned that tonight they are running "Legends: The 60 Minutes Interviews" on the TVL channel, it runs for two hours; winds up with Ed Bradley's chat with George Burns who was 92 at the time. It is at 7pm Mountain time so must be 9pm Eastern.

I saw Joe on Tulagi,in a torrential rainstorm,GI's were standing out in the rain getting ready to watch him perform protected by a canvas tent,also protected from the elements were the Officers,Joe walked up to the mike,looked out at the crowd and announced that the show would be be moved to the rear of the open air arena,so we can all get "wet" together,it was a terrific show,the storm passed and forever after he held a high place in my heart,just a wonderful guy,he lost a son in the Pacific during WW11

I believe Joe E Brown had another son, Joe Jr. - who was General Manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates years ago.

He was so great in Some LIke it Hot. The clsoing line was the very bet. And now, Tony Curtis is touring in the show, playing the Joe E Brown role.

Some years back, I used to think that Mel Brooks and Buddy Hackett were the two funniest men in the world... and not much has happened to change my mind.

Mostly it's because I have always drawn a distinction between great comedians - and genuinely funny "people" - who made you laugh just looking at them - their expressions, their body language, and their delivery, no matter what the lines were. To a somewhat leser degree, Dick Shawn was one of that group. There are more, of course, but Brooks and Hackett were at the top of the class.

And Buddy Hackett was one of those people. There were, and are, many comedians who break you up because of the brilliance of their lines -- and then, there are the "comics. They all make you laugh -but there IS a difference.

He was also a guy who could be vulgar without being offensive. Only a few people could manange that.

Anyone who ever saw his Chinese Waiter routine, in the early days, knows what uproarious humor means.

'Bye Buddy - and take it easy on them, up there.

Parman,I will always remember Buddy Hackett's routine,taking the large,ever changing chinese dinner order,it was a classic.

Bob Hope died today at the age of 100, just 2 months after his birthday.

Martyk--- I think you should send those wonderful lyrics to Dolores Hope.

Oscar

and another giant leaves us.

And what we're left with - with just a few notable exceptions - are a bunch of young comics who can't be on stage for more than a minute with using the F word that might have been funny when you were in grade school, and scandalized all the goody-goodies - but isn't it time they grew up?

The real shame is that, for the first time in a long, long while, there are all kinds of comedy clubs, where these poeple could be sharpening their skills and becoming REAL comedians.

Great two-hour biography of Bob Hope on A & E this evening. If there is a repeat try to catch it.

He certainly was one of the greatest "Entertainers of the Golden Age." First in vaudeville, then in radio, movies and television. Most of all as an entertainer of troops around the world from WWII to Desert Storm.

I've watched most of the biographies and retrospective shows being shown, about Bob Hope's life and career. So many celebrities have appeared on various programs to give personal anecdotes and remembrances. On Larry King's show last night, I enjoyed seeing Jane Russell, Mickey Rooney, Connie Stevens, and others, and hearing what they had to say about him. Also I saw a brief interview with his daughter, Linda, who will be on King's show tonight.
Just to show how Bob kept his wonderful sense of humor till the very end - Dolores, said that she recently asked Bob, if he had any special requests for his funeral or burial service. His answer: "Surprise me"!

Bob Newhart is sheduled to appear at one of the Native American casinos in this area tomorrow night. Pasatiempo which is a weekend supplement to The Santa Fe New Mexican reports an interview with him including some comments Newhart made about Jack Benny. He said that Jack Benny was a brave comedian who would make fun of himself and wasn't afraid to let the other guy have a laugh.

In the interview Bob Newheart cites a story he heard about Benny. Ronald Colman was a guest on one of Benny's radio shows. They were all sitting down at a reading session, and a funny line came up. Jack said, "Give that to Phil [Harris]; that's a funnier line if it comes from Phil." Then he said, "Oh, give this one to Mary [Livingstone, Benny's wife]; give that one to Dennis [Day]," and so on. At the end of the reading Colman approached Benny and said, "You gave all your best lines to other people." Jack said, "Yeah, but I'm gonna be back next week. It doesn't matter who gets the laugh as long as the show works."

Then Newhart comments that Benny was right and that is the way he [Newhart] did The Bob Newhart Show and Newhart -- sharing the laughs.

I thought it interesting.

Yes, Newhart is right.

That was what made Benny's shows (both on TV and radio before that) so great -- he made himself the butt of all the jokes.

Same thing for George Burns; he changed their act early on to give Gracie all the funny lines and made himself into her straight man. Worked wonderfully.

Nowadays, Kelsey Grammer has done very well on "Frasier" by allowing himself to be put down by all the others in the cast even though he's the star of the show. And that series has lasted ten years.

So, it still works.

Regarding, Benny, Newhart and Burns. I hadn't really thought about it before - how those comedians consistantly allowed others to get the laughs. (Of course Benny's "reaction", was always as funny as the joke itself.) Jerry Seinfeld, is another one who lets all the other cast members get most of the laughs.

It got me thinking about other comedians who had the opposite style. Some that were always, "on", and getting all or most of the laughs themselves - Milton Berle, Red Skelton and Lucille Ball.

but it also makes comedy.

The technique of allowing others get the laughs is an outgrowth of the old two-man vaudeille and burlesque comics -- like Gallegher and Sheen, Smith and Dale -- later morphing into Abbott and Costello, and then Martin and Lewis, and their many imitators. Even the gals got into the act -- rememr the Kean Sisters - Better and Jane? One of them (can't remember which, but I think it was Jean) was the original Alice when Gleason first introduced the sketch on his variety show.

That carried over into the movies where we saw that in the Martin and Lewis -- and think of the Hope/Crosby films.

In the old radio days, too, the opposite was around, too -- Fred Allen, for example -- although his sword cut both ways -- he got the laughs in his own comments - but played straight for his Allen's Alley characters -- same with Cantor and his sidekicks -- they played off him

That's really what makes comedy so wonderful - the fact that so many different types and situations can make us laugh.

Even in straight stand-up, solo comedy, there are those who poke fun at themsevles for the laughs - and those who comment on situations for the laughs - and even those who "abuse" the audience -- Jack Leonard, Don Rickes, for example.

THe only thing that never changes is the idea that many story tellers espouse - there is no such thing as a new joke - just variations on the old ones.

Keep smilin'

The original Alice on "The Honeymooners" when Gleason started that sketch on his Dumont "Cavalcade of Stars" show was Pert Kelton.

When he revived it on his CBS show in '55, Kelton was not hired, she had since been blacklisted because of alleged Communist sympathies; the part was played by Audrey Meadows.

Jane Kean played Trixie Norton on the 1971 second revival of "The Honeymooners", after Gleason had moved his show to Miami. She replaced the original Trixie, Joyce Randolph.

I knew when I posted that that there was someone from the Allen's Alley gang involved there somewhere, but it was like a fly buzzing around my head.

Pert Kelton did such marvelous things in those days...a great character - always reminded me in a way of Patsy Kelly... and some years later, of Thelma Ritter.

She was married for many years to a voice-over specialist nmed Ralph Bell, who was the voice for so many radio and tv commercials, that I believe he held some sort of record.

Hello all

Charles Bronson, 81, Dies

Charles Bronson, the Pennsylvania coal miner who drifted into films as a villain and became a hard-faced action star dies of pneumonia.

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-083103bronson_wr,1,3959916.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Menziesii

There was one -- Hard Times - about bare knuckle fighting during the depression - that I thought had some of his best work.

And the Death Wish series was one of the few where sequels held up very nicely to the original.

And he was perfect in The Dirty Dozen - as was just about everyone else in that film -- a real classic -- no wonder it is shown on cable so often.

My very favorite was Gorgeous George and Liberace. These go back a few years,eh?

Hello all

Bridge

Are you still a wrestling fan?

Best

Menziesii

And here I thought Gorgeous George was Liberace's brother. You know, the one who played the violin.

Hello all

Mr. M

To us wrestling fans, there will always and only be just one "Gorgeous George." There might be a "Curious George," and a couple of "Dumb Georges," but only one "Gorgeous George." As well, I take some of my best naps during WWE wrestling.

I do remember the violin guy.

Best

Menziesii

Mr. Menzies:

If you were a wrestling fan back in the days of Gorgeous George (and lived anywhere near New York TV) then you'd also most likely remember announcer Dennis ("Hello Mother") James and wacky fan Hatpin Mary who'd go up next to the ring and jab her hatpin into the rump of any poor wrestler she didn't care for.

Wrestling in my day was centered around the "Londus Brothers","Gus Sonengberg"(sp),and the great "Danno Mahoney" and his "Irish whip" a great crowd pleaser in Irish Boston,and old "Haystack Calhoon" with his big arse would provide comic relief to the days troubles.

Hello all

Mr. M

Never made it to NY. Did all of my "Gorgeous George era" wrestling watching in L.A. That was with Dick 'Whoooaaa Nellie" Lane, doing the announcing. Odd that you should mention Hatpin Mary. My Grandmother was arrested in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in the early 50's, for doing the same thing to a wrestler when he walked up the isle from the ring.

Dun

Only saw Haystack wrestle a couple of times. Freddie Blase was one of the big names on the L.A. card, as was Edwardo Carpontier(sp?) Wahoo McDanials, Jules Strongbow, Gene LaBell, Lord James Blair, Bob Orton. The Old Olympic Auditorium still offers both wrestling and boxing matches. Could ride the bus, from just across the street from my home to just 2 blocks from the arena. My Grandmother went nearly every Wednesday night, till well into her 80's.

Best

Menziesii

Senor Menzies:

And speaking of those early TV wrestlers, there was the huge Primo Carnera, the ex-heavyweight boxing contender who couldn't really fight (and who was the real guy that they modeled the clumsy gigantic boxer on in Bogart's last film "The Harder They Fall.")

And we even were so niave back then that we thought wrestling on TV was for real.

And how about that other early TV "sport" that was so popular -- Roller Derby? Used to watch that all the time -- loved to watch the gals duke it out, especially one ittle hellcat named "Toughie" something-or-other.

M. Marty

Wrestling isn't real????????

"Toughie Terhune(sp?)." There was also a fiery redhead called 'Little Iodine." Grandmother used to go to the Olympic Aud. on Sunday nights for roller derby. I think, if I remember correctly, NY., or Brooklyn had a team called the 'Bombers." Can't even remember the team name for L.A.

Primo Carnera, had a liqueur store, in Glendale Ca. My cousin, who was in the insurance business with Jack Dempsey, used to trade there. Met Primo onetime, but was too young to really understand, or remember much about it. My dad went to HS with Sammy Lee, the Olympic diving champ. His family had a liqueur store about three blocks from the house, and his mother would at times go to wrestling or roller derby with my GM.

Best

Menziesii

You were kidding about wrestling not being real, right????????????

My fantasy role model - was a tough, Roller Derby skater, named Joanie Weston. Better known as, the Blonde Bomber, or The Queen of the Roller Derby. She was the STAR of the Bay City Bombers, (San Francisco Bombers). Her male counterpart was a guy named Charlie O'Connell.

All of we timid little 1960's housewives and mothers, used to gather every week and root for, The Blonde Bomber - to roll around that track, and kick some serious b***! She was aggressive, strong, and tough. Everything that, "nice girls", were not supposed to be, in the 60's. How we did admire her spunk and her skill!

Menzie: I think the L.A. team was called the T-Birds?

I think Toughie's name might have been Muldoon.

Sorry Mr. Menzies -- wrestling wasn't real. (Hate to tell you, but I also read that those fights in Roller Derby were put up jobs too, done to increase the TV audience. Seriously.)

Hello all

Mr. M

I find I may never beleive in anything ever again.

Marilyne

Yes, you are correct, the T-Birds. Don't know how I forgot that. Alo I could thing of was the Blades. They were the old ice hockey team. Used to watch them play at the old L.A. Sports arena. What a waste of money, the Sports Arena, not the Blades. They never could stop the roof from leaking. Of course, this was not a major problem in L.A., but, depending on seating, time of the year and the event, an annoyance.

Best

Menziesii

Are you sure, Mr. M.????

Mista Menzies:

The only thing I'm sure about these days is that the world has gone to hell in a handbasket.

Terrorists, Iraq, 9/11, suicide bombers, people without health insurance, rock and rap "music", J.Lo & Ben; Governor Arnold, the homeless, Bin Laden, Arafat, Pedro Martinez, the cost of prescription drugs forcing seniors to break the law by getting their drugs from Canada, having to "press one" to continue in English, current movies and TV, shopping malls and all the other insanities that constitute daily living these days.

Gotta tell ya, I'm glad I'm old and won't have to put up with too much more of this; I only feel badly for my son and my grandkids (and anyone else of a similar age) and don't envy what they have to look forward to.

Sorry to get so downbeat on you guys here; it just welled up for some reason. I've always been a pessimist, but these days I just dread reading the morning paper.

Oh well, never mind, just me venting; pay no attention to the addled rantings of a senior sour apple; wrong forum for that...so, back to the fun & games.

Marty - You mean you aren't waiting, with bated breath, to learn of the secret wedding plans of J-Lo and Ben? LOL! But we shouldn't laugh - don't forget how we followed the 1960's antics of, Liz and Eddie,(poor Debbie!) Soon to be overshadowed by, Liz and Richard! (poor Eddie!)

News from Boston,we just got rid of Lopez and the local boyfriend,watching the play-off between the Sox and Yanks you had to suffer the camara showing us that boreing twosum. One problem with the play-off's and series is the spotlighting of people you wouldn't go across the street to see.

Golly darn, Marty! You mean to tell us that Gorgeous George wasn't gorgeous? It has got to the point that a person just doesn't know what to think or believe...

Geez Marty I just read your diatribe on our current societal ills and problems and then I see the Cubs blow a three run lead and with in five outs to play in the Series. All those other things are out of our control too, but I boycott a lot of that stuff. Don't go to the movies anymore, watch very little TV except sports events and some news, History Channel and Golf Channel. I voted for Harry Truman in 1948 and it has been downhill from there. Maybe things will get better in 2004. Smile. Hang in there, you are a fountain of knowledge on many things. Roger

Thanks Rog, but I think the fountain is drying up.

The Cubs? Looks like the Goat Curse is still alive.

Maybe it will be the Marlins vs. the Yankees...that'd be a win-win situation for me.

Better days,
MFM (Marty Feeling Morose)
(Maybe because today is the dreaded Big 70)

Seventy years young today? Geez. I had my 70th in Europe a long time ago, or so it seems. Wishing you a grest day. Roger

Hello all

Mr Marty

Sorry I am a day late. Happy Birthday.

Best

Menziesii

Hello everyone. I thought you might be wondering where Parman has been. He has written the following to SeniorNet:

I'm heading back to the hospital on the 23rd - the next round of chemo. But I also find that the Parental Therapy that I am on each night is really more than I can handle, being all alone -- much more difficult than the last time I had to do this - so from the hospital, I'm going to a brand new rehab center nearby - where I'll spend probably three or four months, till the chemo is all done with and the nutritional balance is back where it should be - and a few other various assorted pains in the neck.

Once I'm through there, I'm then headed for an Assisted Living Center - connected with the rehab - where I'll have either a small apartment or a room. My mother spent her last few years at one of these places and it worked out fine for her. I'm a bit skeptical, because by nature, I am not a dependent person, but hey, things change.

So I will be out of touch with SN for a while. Once I'm at the assisted living center, I'll be able to hook up my computer and get back on board again but that will be some time from now.

Anyway - say "Hi" to all my friends.

I can be reached, during all this, though, at parman495@aol.com -- that's my daughter's computer, where I have my own address - and she'll be able to bring me messages, so I won't be shut off from the world.

I am way ahead of you in age, but not in experience. I lived and worked in Inglewood Cal.where Baron Leone and about twenty other wrestlers lived. Johnny "Red Shoes Duggan was a favorite of mine. Remember Iron Mike Mazurki. He lived down the street from me in Glendale. Menzies remembers all these I have mentioned plus many more. I go to a campground and see Hilo Hattie from the old Roller Derby days. Now I really feel old.But the reason I am writing here is to remind you young timers of the great baladeer of the vaudville stage,Benny Fields.He was the Neil Diamond of his day...Rusty's Paw. P.S. Parman, we are all praying and pulling for you to return soon, as vital and spunky as ever...

I may be just a kid, however I remember Mike Mazurki and Benny Fields...but only from their minor roles in countless movies.

Hello all

Rusty

I remember all of the ose wrestlers well. I loved Baron Leone. He was crazy in the ring.

Did you ever go to the Olympic Aud., or just watch the broadcasts with Dick Lane? It was on Wed. Nights 8-10, ch 5, KTLA.

Best

Menziesii

Rusty D.

Realize I confused Benny Fields with Benny Rubin in my post above. Sorry about that...I'd claim old age as an excuse, but from what I read here, apparently I'm just a toddler by comparison.

Does anyone remember when MOVIES HAD A PLOT? There are lots of choices on television these days, but few things are aimed at seniors. Once in a while I find an old movie, like "Broadway Melody of 1938" (wasn't Eleanor Powell exciting?)or something like that, but NEW movies have too much violence and that "s" word (probably can't say it here).

There is one movie shown now and then, not an old one, called "Down Periscope" with the fellow from "Frasier" (what's his name?) - Grammar. I must have watched that a dozen times, and double up with laughter every time. But that's ME. When I go to the video store, I always head for the comedies. I am an easy audience for laughs.

Going down memory lane, I remember a night at a local club called THE TOTEM POLE (outside Boston - no liquor, just cokes, etc.). This was back in 1946 - get the picture - handsome boyfriend from college - Tommy Dorsey playing live - beautiful music. I figured life would never get any better than that, and it didn't until I met my sweet husband three years later.

Anyone else have a "moment in history" that just stands out there and brings back strong wonderful memories? Let's hear them!

Ellie

You brought back wonderful memories when you mentioned "The Totem Pole" That was the place to bring that special date,I enjoyed many great nights there dancing to the big bands ,and Moseley's on the Charles,Lake Pearl and Nuttings on the Charles also.Vaughn Monroe's "The Meadows" was another of my favorite places to take that special date.Thanks for jogging the memory bank.

Raymond Chandler's Murder My Sweet with Dick Powell as Philip Marlowe is scheduled at 6 p.m. EST Friday Nov. 14 on TCM.

"I caught the blackjack right behind my ear. A black pool opened at my feet. I dived in. It had no bottom." -- Lines quoted courtesy of TV Guide Magazine...

Guess this should be in the "Movies"; sorry.

Hello folks

I hate to be the one to bring you this news, but our friend Parman passed away last month. Below is a post by Marci Schwarz at Senior Net.

Hello, everyone. I have very sad news to report. Parman's daughter let me know that he passed away last month. He was fighting his recurrence of cancer but it overcame him fairly rapidly. She said he always spoke with fondness of his pals at SeniorNet. We will miss Parman but I know that many of us will remember his legacy of knowledge about the "golden age" of sports and entertainment, his feisty humor and his engagement in sparring about issues he felt strongly about.

Thanks Menzie:

Marcie gave us the sad news in the Baseball discussion, this morning. I feel so bad about it, and am sorry that parman, (Mickey), is no longer with us. He contributed alot to, The Golden Age, as well as to other discussions on Senior Net. When he told us he was sick again, we all hoped that he would be back with us again soon. He will be missed.

Does anyone remember Antonino(Argentina) Rocca? We used to watch him on TV in NYC. There was also Gorgeous George, Bibber McCoy, and many more whose names escape me. We enjoyed them all. Bad Dad

Hello all

Bad Dad

Remember them all. Started watching wrestling back in the 50's and am still a fan, but don't really care that much for the WWE.

Best

Menziesii

Does anyone remember "Danno Mahoney" "The Irish whip"?

Hello all

Dunmore

Dan was before my time.

Best

Menziesii

We got our first television around 1950. I remember my grandmother swearing that she would never watch wrestling, then sitting with the newspaper in front of her face while my grandfather and I took the plunge. Then, as the wrestling announcer got more excited, there was grandma, peeking around the paper. It wasn't long before she never missed a match, kept her own ratings. Anyone remember Chief Don Eagle?

Wrestling on T.V.

We also got a T.V. in 1950.

Watched wrestling every monday night. There were two wrestlers that come to mind they billed themselves as the "Gorky Brothers." Back East they were known as the "Smith Brothers, Trade and Mark" Don't know what their real names were. I suspect that they were known by other monikers in different parts of the U.S.

Of course, they were always the bad guys. Usually a Tag Team.

Tiger Tom

Hello all

My Grandmother never missed wrestling. She would often go to the matches at the Olympic Auditorium in downtown L.A. Of course, she got me hooked at an early age. Watched many a match with the late Freddie Blase there myself.

As to Chief Don Eagle

http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamWrestlingBios/eagle_don.html

Tom. I could not find anything on the Gorky brother, but like you said, probably just a ring name.

Best

Menziesii

Menziesii,

They were called Ivan and Soldad Gorky.

Heard one time they were family men when not Wrestling as many were.

Tiger Tom

Hello all

Tom

did another search and found these.

POPPENHEIM DEFEATS COWBOY CARLSON
(Kelso Kelsonian-Tribune, Thursday, Jan. 17, 1952)
Kurt Von Poppenheim, virtual ruler of Fairgrounds Arena until his defeat last week by Herb Parks, hit the comeback trail Monday night (Jan. 14) as he downed Cowboy Orville Carlson, the Montana bronc-buster, in an action-packed, one-hour brawl.

Carlson took the place of Ivan Gorky, who was originally scheduled to meet Von Poppenheim. Ivan, brother of notorious Soldat Gorky, failed to put in an appearance at the arena, in spite of heavy advance publicity. According to matchmaker Harry Elliott, the Siberian grappler was snowed in at Mt. Shasta, California, and unable to reach the arena in time for the match.

IVAN GORKY, POPPENHEIM SPLIT MATCH
(Kelso Kelsonian-Tribune, January 21, 1952)
There’s trouble a-brewing at Fairgrounds Arena.
The Gorky brothers’ claim to fame has been squelched for the second time by arrogant Kurt Von Poppenheim, as Ivan Gorky failed to win Monday night (Jan. 21) over the powerful Prussian in an action-filled one-hour battle that ended in a draw.

Previously, Von Poppenheim thoroughly trounced brother Soldat Gorky after one rushin’ Russian claimed he would end the German’s long-run winning streak. Ivan was after revenge Monday night, for his brother’s defeat, but failed to come up with more than the resulting two-fall draw.

Before a near-record crowd, Gorky gained the initial fall with his famous Siberian wolf-leap after a fast bit of action on the ropes. Von Poppenheim returned the favor with his tried and true back breaker-back stretcher combination. Both grapplers tried to gain the deciding fall in the remaining few minutes, but time ran out before either accomplished the feat.

Another headliner, the Swedish Angel, met rangy Bill Parks in a special handicap, semi-windup event. The Angel, not to be confused with the famous French Angel, Maurice Tillet, agreed to down young Parks twice within 25 minutes or else forfeit the match. The Angel was only able to gain one fall from the muscular Canadian, however, accomplished with a series of chin flips and a body press.

POPPENHEIM DEFEATED BY IVAN GORKY
(Kelso Kelsonian-Tribune, Thursday, Jan. 31, 1952)
Kurt Von Polppenheim, the proud Prussian, finally met his downfall Monday night (Jan. 28) at Fairgrounds Arena in the person of bewhiskered Ivan Gorky, who gained a two-fall victory via the foul route.

The first fall was taken by Von Poppenheim with his "German back breaker" – a combination back breaker and back stretcher, a submission hold frequently used by the Prussian.

Gorky, however, wasn’t put out of commission as readily as his opponent calculated. The Siberian grappler climaxed two minutes of slam-bang action with a body press, after clamming Kurt’s head into the ring turnbuckle several times.

Gorky was well on his way to another fall when the enraged Von Poppenheim picked the rushin’ Russian up and threw him from the arena, landing on the concrete floor amidst a group of surprised ringside spectators.

Referee Glen Detton looked with disfavor upon these violent ring actions and awarded the fall, and match, to the very groggy Gorky, calling a foul on Von Poppenheim. Gorky had to be carried to the dressing room as a result of the fall.

http://www.solie.org/titlehistories/pnwttnwa.html

Best

Menziesii

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